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VFJ std. bore kits.

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Old 06-13-2012, 09:54 AM
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VFJ std. bore kits.

VFJ is making some new std bore kits.



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Old 06-13-2012, 10:50 AM
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70 rwhp with std bore would be cool have to what and see what happens


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Old 06-13-2012, 05:38 PM
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John is the man. You can bank on any thing he does. Buy american.
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Old 06-13-2012, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by klx450r View Post
70 rwhp with std bore would be cool have to what and see what happens


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Shouldn't be a problem,he got 71rwhp out of one of my 715cc kit in a V-Force the other day with stock 32mm carbs.
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Old 06-13-2012, 09:33 PM
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Seems weird to me to promote your competition
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Old 06-13-2012, 10:45 PM
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Seems weird to me to promote your competition
I don't look at it as competition,his stuff is going to be high dollar. He told me his cost on pistons is $20 more the what I sell mine for.

What's weird is Chine-O- Ray selling China cast cams welded and ground by Megacyle using their specs and calling them his. This comes from a guy that says I copied his cam with my stage 3's. The funny thing is like John said none of his cams made power,while my stage 3's have made good power for 8 years now and these Megacycle cams Ray says are his made about the same power as my 8 year old stage 3's. And as I told you I have 2 new sets of my stage 3's to test that I'm sure will make 2-3 more hp on my 840's and up kits.
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Old 06-14-2012, 03:14 AM
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Music to my ears. Saving up now to buy a FST 840.
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Old 06-14-2012, 04:52 AM
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The FST840 runs strong I have it in my car and love it, I'll go higher compression next time.
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Old 06-14-2012, 04:53 AM
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And I'm interested in new stage three cams as well
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Old 06-14-2012, 07:12 AM
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Lets get ready to rumble. I dig my Vforce clutch can wait to see what these kits will do. Competition is good for the sport
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Old 06-14-2012, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Areed View Post
The FST840 runs strong I have it in my car and love it, I'll go higher compression next time.
The problem is going above 11.5:1 you should run race gas,not too many people want to do that. You will have some builders say 12:1 can be run on pump gas,and while that may be true you better have everything perfect every time you ride. On the east coast the weather changes 2-3 times a day let alone every week,so if you want the high compression of a race motor be ready to tune it like a race car. I believe in building them so even if you are not 100% tuned for the day you can get away with it and run pump gas. Be careful in what you buy,there are a lot of people getting into this market that have not had the time to test what works vs what will live in the long run.

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Originally Posted by Areed View Post
And I'm interested in new stage three cams as well
If you already have my stage 3's 2-3 hp isn't worth getting the new ones if they do what I think they will. I made them for our 920cc stroker motors. I have had them since 7-11 but because I am working on the stage 4 race stuff and my 1100cc kit I have not tested them yet. I move too slow,I know,trust me I know!lol

The cams John tested were in a Fundy std bore 09' Brute and made 61.5 hp. I have not run my stage 3's in a std bore because I think they are too big. But my stage 2's made I think 58hp in LUVTHEMUD's Teryx that John mapped for me.Our stage 3's make 5hp more then our stage 2's in our 715,730 and even our 840 kits,so they should make at least 63hp in a std bore. John said he dyno a 4 year old 730 kit of mine with just the stage 3's and no porting last night and it still made 66hp. I just don't think my stage 3's would pull a big Teryx around like the stage 2's do even if it makes more hp. That's why I don't like HP numbers,they mean nothing unless it works on the ground. That's why I sold my dynos,both rear wheel and crank because my BUTT dyno serves me better.I still like going up to John's and dynoing stuff just to make sure my butt dyno still works

Last edited by 4stroketec; 06-14-2012 at 09:50 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 06-14-2012, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by klx450r View Post
70 rwhp with std bore would be cool have to what and see what happens


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LOL, 70+ HP std bore was years ago, LOL

Long Travel Industries ran one of our std bore kits on a chassis dyno a couple years ago in a Teryx at 72 or 73 RWHP, on a chassis dyno that show's 26RWHP on a stocker.
Not that RWHP tells you anything and Long travel know that but they just wanted to see what they could show so they set up clutching and jetting for the dyno. The clutch and jetting setup didn't run even close to the setup that made 64RWHP.
Put it this way, I built and dynoed a motor here years ago. Just a basic 730 with stock carbs and heads and it made 91 or 92 HP on the engine dyno. I put it in a chassis and on our chassis dyno, which we normally don't do as it's a waste of time other then roughing in your jetting if you don't have an engine dyno, but this motor was going to a customer who was going to take it to VFJ for us to have it dynoed on his chassis dyno.
It made 62 and change RWHP on our chassis dyno and then it made just under 64 RWHP on John's dyno.
That basic 90HP engine kit ran 5.2's-5.3's in 300ft for pretty well everyone in trail form including that one.
Then we starting making better cams, pistons ect and more HP at the engine, running way quicker drag times but you don't see higher RWHP. What make a CVT driven machine fast is PEAK HP, what make big RWHP numbers is low RPM power.
John say's the best cams we ever made were our old Ultimate Trail cams at 0.355" lift and 236 deg duration at 0.050" and they probably were (THE BEST CHASSIS DYNO CAMS) we made for small bore's as they were the smallest, LOL
Ray
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Old 06-14-2012, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by 4stroketec View Post
The problem is going above 11.5:1 you should run race gas,not too many people want to do that. You will have some builders say 12:1 can be run on pump gas,and while that may be true you better have everything perfect every time you ride. On the east coast the weather changes 2-3 times a day let alone every week,so if you want the high compression of a race motor be ready to tune it like a race car. I believe in building them so even if you are not 100% tuned for the day you can get away with it and run pump gas. Be careful in what you buy,there are a lot of people getting into this market that have not had the time to test what works vs what will live in the long run.



If you already have my stage 3's 2-3 hp isn't worth getting the new ones if they do what I think they will. I made them for our 920cc stroker motors. I have had them since 7-11 but because I am working on the stage 4 race stuff and my 1100cc kit I have not tested them yet. I move too slow,I know,trust me I know!lol

The cams John tested were in a Fundy std bore 09' Brute and made 61.5 hp. I have not run my stage 3's in a std bore because I think they are too big. But my stage 2's made I think 58hp in LUVTHEMUD's Teryx that John mapped for me.Our stage 3's make 5hp more then our stage 2's in our 715,730 and even our 840 kits,so they should make at least 63hp in a std bore. John said he dyno a 4 year old 730 kit of mine with just the stage 3's and no porting last night and it still made 66hp. I just don't think my stage 3's would pull a big Teryx around like the stage 2's do even if it makes more hp. That's why I don't like HP numbers,they mean nothing unless it works on the ground. That's why I sold my dynos,both rear wheel and crank because my BUTT dyno serves me better.I still like going up to John's and dynoing stuff just to make sure my butt dyno still works
Well as long as the guys changing from stg 3 840's to our stg 2 std bores are gaining over half a second in drag races and eating everything else up in the dunes, I think we'll keep doing what we're doing, LOL
You just keep dreaming about chassis dyno's, since you already know that doesn't work, or did you forget again. If so I can post your thought's on engine vrs chassis dyno testing, LOL
Ray
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Old 06-14-2012, 07:22 PM
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I don't want either of you to take this the wrong way but damn, I have talked with both of you and both of you have lots to offer and both have good service and both build motors that make good power but the last thing we need on this forum is another "My D--K is bigger than your's" thread.
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Old 06-14-2012, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by FUELATV View Post
I don't want either of you to take this the wrong way but damn, I have talked with both of you and both of you have lots to offer and both have good service and both build motors that make good power but the last thing we need on this forum is another "My D--K is bigger than your's" thread.

Don't worry about that,I have seen too much of his BS over the years I don't even get into it any more. John's dyno work has been a good benchmark for the past 8 years and hasn't changed so it's dependable.
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Old 06-14-2012, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by FUELATV View Post
I don't want either of you to take this the wrong way but damn, I have talked with both of you and both of you have lots to offer and both have good service and both build motors that make good power but the last thing we need on this forum is another "My D--K is bigger than your's" thread.
I agree Fuel and I shouldn't stoop to his level, even after 8-10 years of his crap.
If I keep going that way, next thing you know I'll be PMing and E mailing all his customers, LOL. That's when you know your at ROCK BOTTOM, LMAO.
Can you just imagine someone doing that!!! O wait, they already do, LOL
Ray
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Old 06-14-2012, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by 4stroketec View Post
Don't worry about that,I have seen too much of his BS over the years I don't even get into it any more. John's dyno work has been a good benchmark for the past 8 years and hasn't changed so it's dependable.
Yes I agree, you should keep doing all YOUR development on a chassis dyno.
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Old 06-14-2012, 08:03 PM
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Good both of you agree to disagree most of the time (well all of the time really) but I will take your last posts as an apology to eachother and now we can all move on.
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Old 06-14-2012, 08:24 PM
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Yes I agree, you should keep doing all YOUR development on a chassis dyno.

I don't do my testing with anything other then the real world on the ground where the rubber meets the road. It don't matter what the numbers are if it doesn't do the job where it counts. I have never seen a dyno win a race,and I have won a lot of races and championships with out a dyno. When you think about it,what makes a better builder,someone that makes power on a dyno but doesn't win races,or someone that doesn't use a dyno,but wins races?
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Old 06-14-2012, 08:44 PM
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I don't do my testing with anything other then the real world on the ground where the rubber meets the road. It don't matter what the numbers are if it doesn't do the job where it counts. I have never seen a dyno win a race,and I have won a lot of races and championships with out a dyno. When you think about it,what makes a better builder,someone that makes power on a dyno but doesn't win races,or someone that doesn't use a dyno,but wins races?
In answer to your question, what is better is developing the HP on the engine dyno, then letting that HP win the races for you.
As far as cross country racing like you did, as you know, that racing is 80% rider, 15% suspension and 5% motor. So when you were winning races, you were a good rider.
We have been through that with GNCC, Motocross and supercross and superbike. We have supplied engines to lot's in the above fields and sure we had lots of holes shots in GNCC, Motocross and supercross but if you have a 4 or 5 place rider on your engine, after the HP gets shown off on the start, their still a 4 or 5th place rider.
Real world testing is great, as long as your doing it with timers. The trouble with that is it's similar to a chassis dyno, lot's of variables especially with a CVT tranny. You could have gained 10HP at 1000RPM higher and if you run it with the same clutch setup as the 1000RPM lower motor, you might never see it. So yes doing engine development testing on the track can work, it takes a HOLE lot longer.
If your testing is "what feels faster" then that's just a waste of time period.
I've been building engines and racing for going on 30 years and what "feels" fast isn't always.
I remember the first time we ran a VFJ stg3 clutch on our test track, the customer had one of our 100HP std bore kits and we had ran it with a stock clutch and Dalton clutch kit already. Then put the VFJ stg3 clutch on and I made a pass. I came back smiling, thought we had something as if felt stronger. The guys asked me what I was smiling about, it was almost 6 tenths slower!!. We tested for 5 or 6 hours and the best we could get was still over 3 tenths slower then a stock clutch with a Dalton setup.
If we didn't have timers, I would have sworn it was quicker.
Been through that on MANY different machine's from car's, to ATV's, to sleds.
What feels' fast isn't always.
Ray
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Old 06-14-2012, 08:45 PM
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Okay guys, we are all done here. Like I said previously both of you build fast motors and are both great people when not dealing with eachother but the biggest this that both of you treat your customers right.

When it all comes down to it there are enough motors to build to keep both of you busy
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Old 06-14-2012, 09:52 PM
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You know all this talk never goes any where. I will make you a offer and we can just put this to rest once and for all. I will pay for all your cost plus $500 a day to come down to John's and I will even pay for the dyno time just for fun. Then Friday night we will go up the road to a nice paved track and see who builds a faster quad. No turbos,super chargers or NOS,just motor to motor and let the chips fall where they may.

On my web site in the video section there is a video under Scrowdogs 1st run or something like that to show you the track. You have until Oct. I think before they stop racing. Can't think of any reason why we couldn't do this.
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Old 06-15-2012, 03:34 AM
 
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You know all this talk never goes any where. I will make you a offer and we can just put this to rest once and for all. I will pay for all your cost plus $500 a day to come down to John's and I will even pay for the dyno time just for fun. Then Friday night we will go up the road to a nice paved track and see who builds a faster quad. No turbos,super chargers or NOS,just motor to motor and let the chips fall where they may.

On my web site in the video section there is a video under Scrowdogs 1st run or something like that to show you the track. You have until Oct. I think before they stop racing. Can't think of any reason why we couldn't do this.
this sounds like a good deal to let everybody see the truth?
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Old 06-15-2012, 06:33 AM
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Originally Posted by 4stroketec View Post
You know all this talk never goes any where. I will make you a offer and we can just put this to rest once and for all. I will pay for all your cost plus $500 a day to come down to John's and I will even pay for the dyno time just for fun. Then Friday night we will go up the road to a nice paved track and see who builds a faster quad. No turbos,super chargers or NOS,just motor to motor and let the chips fall where they may.

On my web site in the video section there is a video under Scrowdogs 1st run or something like that to show you the track. You have until Oct. I think before they stop racing. Can't think of any reason why we couldn't do this.
You guys can demo on my Teryx
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Old 06-15-2012, 07:01 AM
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Originally Posted by 4stroketec View Post
The problem is going above 11.5:1 you should run race gas,not too many people want to do that. You will have some builders say 12:1 can be run on pump gas,and while that may be true you better have everything perfect every time you ride. On the east coast the weather changes 2-3 times a day let alone every week,so if you want the high compression of a race motor be ready to tune it like a race car. I believe in building them so even if you are not 100% tuned for the day you can get away with it and run pump gas. Be careful in what you buy,there are a lot of people getting into this market that have not had the time to test what works vs what will live in the long run.



If you already have my stage 3's 2-3 hp isn't worth getting the new ones if they do what I think they will.
I run 112 race fuel all the time, it's a race vehicle so it's not like I'm pouring it in every weekend and since I run somewhat aggressive timing I'd rather be safe than sorry. Good to know on the cams, I'll hold off till I build another engine.
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