Dual rate springs (2014 T4LE) - Kawasaki Teryx Forum
Teryx4 Dedicated discussions for the Kawasaki Teryx4 (Teryx4 Forum)

 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-25-2018, 08:37 PM Thread Starter
GPS guru
 
Vegas250rr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Sin City
Posts: 216
Garage
Dual rate springs (2014 T4LE)

I am seriously looking at moving to these but not sure if they are worth the money. I have a family full of girls and the heaviest my wife is 100 lbs soaking wet so in the back seat with my two daughters I am carrying 110 lbs combined and myself and my wife up front for a total of 400 lbs .

The question is has anybody got them and what is the difference I can expect.
Vegas250rr is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-26-2018, 12:21 AM
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: palmer , ak
Posts: 477
Who’s selling the fuel rate springs ? Any info ?

I assume you don’t like how stiff th ride is ? Have you thought of turning the preload back and softening the oem shocks ?

What’s your current setup

2012 T4 LE HL 2" LIFT 26.5 X 12 SKINNY/WIDE COMBO PITBULL ROCKER XOR UBER ROCKER TIRES ON STEEL OEM WHEELS, KAWI HALF WINDSHIELD, FULL 1/2" FACTORY UTV UHMW SKIDS, SUPERWINCH TERRA 45 WINCH, VISION X LIGHTS, GARAGE PRODUCTS FULL BUSHING KIT KAWI REAR BOX, KAWI A ARM GUARDS,KAWI REAR BUMPER, DAYSTAR JEEP SWITCH PANEL WITH UTV INC SWITCHES
wilynick is offline  
post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-26-2018, 07:13 AM Thread Starter
GPS guru
 
Vegas250rr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Sin City
Posts: 216
Garage
After doing some quick searches on both dual rate setups and progressive springs I’ve come across a couple of potential options

https://karlperformance.com/i-314209...tegory:1455904

http://spangsfabrication.com/product...-rate-springs/


Currently I have backed off the preload 1/2” all around from what I believe to be stock and set the tears 3 clicks from soft in the front and 2 in the back The previous owner was a heavier man than I and did have it set to stock sag and full soft on all four corners.

After doing mor research I will be checking the torque on the shock mounting bolts as well, though I doubt my suspension is hanging up.

While I like the idea of a true dual rate setup much like the “works” shocks from the 80s on my Trike’s the progressives do offer a nice ride and would be cost effective for my budget.

Our style of riding is sandy wash’s and mild dunes on one hand and mountain fire roads on the other with very minimal travel over 40mph unless it’s on nice dirt roads or pavement.
Vegas250rr is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-26-2018, 01:28 PM
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: palmer , ak
Posts: 477
I c. I’ll research those links tonight.

I will say this. After a few thousand hard miles the shocks do soften up quite a bit.

And the a arm can be bound up pretty good. WHich is normal. Half then bushings are a pressed in style that do bind. The other half including the front upper a arm sloppy ones is a 3 piece style with 2 bushings and a sleeve. These don’t bind

Garage products bushings are the ideal style and will not ever bind

Just don’t leave arms too loose or you will wallow out the frame tab holes.

But if you remove shock or one end of shock you can check a arm sweep for binding

And have you ever set your shocks to full soft setting?

2012 T4 LE HL 2" LIFT 26.5 X 12 SKINNY/WIDE COMBO PITBULL ROCKER XOR UBER ROCKER TIRES ON STEEL OEM WHEELS, KAWI HALF WINDSHIELD, FULL 1/2" FACTORY UTV UHMW SKIDS, SUPERWINCH TERRA 45 WINCH, VISION X LIGHTS, GARAGE PRODUCTS FULL BUSHING KIT KAWI REAR BOX, KAWI A ARM GUARDS,KAWI REAR BUMPER, DAYSTAR JEEP SWITCH PANEL WITH UTV INC SWITCHES
wilynick is offline  
post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-26-2018, 02:48 PM Thread Starter
GPS guru
 
Vegas250rr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Sin City
Posts: 216
Garage
Sorry I should have mentioned mileage as well our T4 has 3700 miles on it and yes they were full soft when I bought it. We took it over a pretty rocky pass with just my youngest in the car seat behind me and halfway up the hill se was complaining about the bouncing ... halfway back Down the hill she started crying from stomach pains to the jarring. Talk about feeling bad, poor kid loves to ride so I have to salve this quickly
Vegas250rr is offline  
post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-26-2018, 06:33 PM
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: palmer , ak
Posts: 477
Gotcha. Ya rear seats are def rougher. Have you looked at bandit shocks ? They add a little more travel and have dual rate springs and a normal or heavy spring option for the rear. They sell all 4 for about 1300 for the newest ones with rebound adjustment. I wonder if they would just sell the rears ?

2012 T4 LE HL 2" LIFT 26.5 X 12 SKINNY/WIDE COMBO PITBULL ROCKER XOR UBER ROCKER TIRES ON STEEL OEM WHEELS, KAWI HALF WINDSHIELD, FULL 1/2" FACTORY UTV UHMW SKIDS, SUPERWINCH TERRA 45 WINCH, VISION X LIGHTS, GARAGE PRODUCTS FULL BUSHING KIT KAWI REAR BOX, KAWI A ARM GUARDS,KAWI REAR BUMPER, DAYSTAR JEEP SWITCH PANEL WITH UTV INC SWITCHES
wilynick is offline  
post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-26-2018, 06:34 PM
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: palmer , ak
Posts: 477
I think the bandits are a little longer in the rear too. So that coupled with a 2” lift kit you could probably really back off the preload and get it soft

2012 T4 LE HL 2" LIFT 26.5 X 12 SKINNY/WIDE COMBO PITBULL ROCKER XOR UBER ROCKER TIRES ON STEEL OEM WHEELS, KAWI HALF WINDSHIELD, FULL 1/2" FACTORY UTV UHMW SKIDS, SUPERWINCH TERRA 45 WINCH, VISION X LIGHTS, GARAGE PRODUCTS FULL BUSHING KIT KAWI REAR BOX, KAWI A ARM GUARDS,KAWI REAR BUMPER, DAYSTAR JEEP SWITCH PANEL WITH UTV INC SWITCHES
wilynick is offline  
post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-26-2018, 09:12 PM Thread Starter
GPS guru
 
Vegas250rr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Sin City
Posts: 216
Garage
Yeah 1300 really isn’t feesable for us, we just bought the T4, paid 6800 which is an insane deal in these parts for how clean it is but it kinda broke the bank with the enclosed trailer and all my mods to date
Vegas250rr is offline  
post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-31-2018, 08:42 PM
 
jschmidt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Vail, AZ
Posts: 1,664
First, most of your ride quality will come from damping adjustments. A little cones from spring rates. But if your shock has compression and rebound adjustments, full soft is actually soft on damping and hard on rebound. Too little rebound can feel like it hard compression. Adjust the shocks to factory specs, including factory preload, and make changes from there. Preload is just to set ride height, not ride comfort. Look to compression and rebound for that. But any big change (like "full soft) is likely to make the ride worse. Remember, you're adjusting the speed of shock travel, not hard or softness. The ideal adjustment is when shock speed matches tge bump ramp on either side. (Obviously, as a compromise setting.)
jschmidt is offline  
post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-01-2018, 06:58 AM
 
GrandkidsMX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Central Oregon
Posts: 490
Quote:
Originally Posted by jschmidt View Post
First, most of your ride quality will come from damping adjustments. A little cones from spring rates. But if your shock has compression and rebound adjustments, full soft is actually soft on damping and hard on rebound. Too little rebound can feel like it hard compression. Adjust the shocks to factory specs, including factory preload, and make changes from there. Preload is just to set ride height, not ride comfort. Look to compression and rebound for that. But any big change (like "full soft) is likely to make the ride worse. Remember, you're adjusting the speed of shock travel, not hard or softness. The ideal adjustment is when shock speed matches tge bump ramp on either side. (Obviously, as a compromise setting.)
I agree.

I tried to explain this same thing in another recent thread on here. Damping is a difficult concept for people to understand that don't have a background (we race MX) using suspension components.

The current generation of Teryx shocks only have compression damping and no rebound damping. Having damping on only one direction of travel and not the other is just dumb. I suppose it's a selling point for the vehicle??? Giving folks the ability to change damping on only one direction of travel mismatches the damping on the other side of the travel stroke. For best performance, shocks should be fully adjustable or, fixed without adjustment.
GrandkidsMX is offline  
post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-01-2018, 10:46 AM Thread Starter
GPS guru
 
Vegas250rr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Sin City
Posts: 216
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrandkidsMX View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jschmidt View Post
First, most of your ride quality will come from damping adjustments. A little cones from spring rates. But if your shock has compression and rebound adjustments, full soft is actually soft on damping and hard on rebound. Too little rebound can feel like it hard compression. Adjust the shocks to factory specs, including factory preload, and make changes from there. Preload is just to set ride height, not ride comfort. Look to compression and rebound for that. But any big change (like "full soft) is likely to make the ride worse. Remember, you're adjusting the speed of shock travel, not hard or softness. The ideal adjustment is when shock speed matches tge bump ramp on either side. (Obviously, as a compromise setting.)
I agree.

I tried to explain this same thing in another recent thread on here. Damping is a difficult concept for people to understand that don't have a background (we race MX) using suspension components.

The current generation of Teryx shocks only have compression damping and no rebound damping. Having damping on only one direction of travel and not the other is just dumb. I suppose it's a selling point for the vehicle??? Giving folks the ability to change damping on only one direction of travel mismatches the damping on the other side of the travel stroke. For best performance, shocks should be fully adjustable or, fixed without adjustment.
So buy going on what you just said, we should set our shocks to middle of the road settings on the adjustments to even out the compression and rebound ?
Vegas250rr is offline  
post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-01-2018, 02:34 PM
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 846
I've looked at the Spangs Fabrication setup in the past but it's still a lot of money for just new springs. You can buy the trail series Bandit shocks for $900 so the $450 for just springs is halfway there for something that it's not clear will actually improve the ride that much since the shock valving is not altered.

Regarding the comment about the spring preload, it defintely does more than simply change the ride height. If you have a spring with a rate of 300 lb/in and have zero preload on it then 300 lbs. of force will compress the spring the first 1". You now put 1" of preload on that spring and now it takes 600 lbs. to compress the spring that first 1". This means the spring with zero preload will start compressing a lot easier when you hit that bump as compared to the same spring with increased preload amounts. I've played around with mine and there is a definite change in ride quality as you remove preload (granted it's still not that great, but the difference is noticable). But as mentioned above it does affect ride height also. While I liked the decreased preload settings I did go back and increase the preload some to regain some ride height and belly clearance.
6.2Blazer is offline  
post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-02-2018, 12:07 AM
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: palmer , ak
Posts: 477
I thought the same 6.2blazer. But I thought the teryx springs were progressive. They are not if my reading last night Ian correct. They are linear. So it doesn’t double or whatever every inch. Stays the same. So preload doesn’t affect the stiffness or softness like a lot of us think

2012 T4 LE HL 2" LIFT 26.5 X 12 SKINNY/WIDE COMBO PITBULL ROCKER XOR UBER ROCKER TIRES ON STEEL OEM WHEELS, KAWI HALF WINDSHIELD, FULL 1/2" FACTORY UTV UHMW SKIDS, SUPERWINCH TERRA 45 WINCH, VISION X LIGHTS, GARAGE PRODUCTS FULL BUSHING KIT KAWI REAR BOX, KAWI A ARM GUARDS,KAWI REAR BUMPER, DAYSTAR JEEP SWITCH PANEL WITH UTV INC SWITCHES
wilynick is offline  
post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-02-2018, 08:24 AM
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 18
All springs become stiffer in rate as they are compressed or if preload is added. This is a example of a 100 lb linear spring.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Screenshot_20181102-102200_Gallery.jpg
Views:	71
Size:	213.3 KB
ID:	50431  

Last edited by Banditone; 11-02-2018 at 08:55 AM.
Banditone is offline  
post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-02-2018, 11:21 AM
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by wilynick View Post
I thought the same 6.2blazer. But I thought the teryx springs were progressive. They are not if my reading last night Ian correct. They are linear. So it doesn’t double or whatever every inch. Stays the same. So preload doesn’t affect the stiffness or softness like a lot of us think
As Banditone above explained, regardless of whether the springs have a linear, progressive, or are dual rates it still takes MORE weight/force to compress them more. The difference is how much more weight is required to continue compressing. Linear rate springs are as I described above. If they are 300 lb/in rated springs that means you have to add 300 lbs. for every inch of compression......300 lbs. compresses them the first inch, then add another 300 lbs. for 600 lbs. total for the second inch, then 900 lbs. total for the third inch, etc..... You can't say that it requires 300 lbs. to compress the springs 1 inch and then somehow later you again only add a total of 300 lbs. and the springs magically compress 2 inches.

For a progressive spring, let's say a 100/300 lb/in spring that is saying that only 100 lbs. is required to compress the springs the first inch. Then maybe it takes an additional 200 lbs. for 300 lbs. total to compress it 2 inches, and then finally an additional 300 lbs. for 600 lbs. total to compress it 3 inches. If you compare the linear rate spring above to the progressive one in this example the difference is that it takes 900 lbs. to compress the linear rate spring 3" but only 600 lbs. to compress the progressive rate spring 3". How quickly the spring rate increases on a progressive spring depends on how it is designed, basically how much of the length is the lighter spring vs. heavier spring rate. A dual rate spring will act in a similar way as a progressive spring.
6.2Blazer is offline  
post #16 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-02-2018, 01:01 PM
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: palmer , ak
Posts: 477
Wow so much conflicting info on here and the web ha ha Some say preload doesn’t affect ride. Well it does right ???!!

Thanks for the info guys

2012 T4 LE HL 2" LIFT 26.5 X 12 SKINNY/WIDE COMBO PITBULL ROCKER XOR UBER ROCKER TIRES ON STEEL OEM WHEELS, KAWI HALF WINDSHIELD, FULL 1/2" FACTORY UTV UHMW SKIDS, SUPERWINCH TERRA 45 WINCH, VISION X LIGHTS, GARAGE PRODUCTS FULL BUSHING KIT KAWI REAR BOX, KAWI A ARM GUARDS,KAWI REAR BUMPER, DAYSTAR JEEP SWITCH PANEL WITH UTV INC SWITCHES
wilynick is offline  
post #17 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-02-2018, 02:47 PM
 
hotdogwater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Lakewood Colorado
Posts: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrandkidsMX View Post
I agree.

I tried to explain this same thing in another recent thread on here. Damping is a difficult concept for people to understand that don't have a background (we race MX) using suspension components.

The current generation of Teryx shocks only have compression damping and no rebound damping. Having damping on only one direction of travel and not the other is just dumb. I suppose it's a selling point for the vehicle??? Giving folks the ability to change damping on only one direction of travel mismatches the damping on the other side of the travel stroke. For best performance, shocks should be fully adjustable or, fixed without adjustment.
Current gen has gone backward from my 2012 then. In the owners/service manual they show the rebound and compression adjustments on the shock. I haven't messed with this yet but the shocks have 2 adjustment screws, one on top and one on the bottom.

Also if your interested in trying out different progressive spring options you might try a slider. This way you can try lots of variations on springs for all sorts of terrain. Springs not only set ride height, they are important to ride softness and overall shock performance since the shock part is really only dampening.

https://www.kartek.com/parts-categor...-dividers.html
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	shock adjustment.jpg
Views:	68
Size:	183.6 KB
ID:	50443  
hotdogwater is offline  
post #18 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-02-2018, 06:06 PM Thread Starter
GPS guru
 
Vegas250rr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Sin City
Posts: 216
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Banditone View Post
All springs become stiffer in rate as they are compressed or if preload is added. This is a example of a 100 lb linear spring.
This makes sense with how I understand it to be. I can’t get on the preload ride-height train sorry guys

Quote:
Originally Posted by hotdogwater View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrandkidsMX View Post
I agree.

I tried to explain this same thing in another recent thread on here. Damping is a difficult concept for people to understand that don't have a background (we race MX) using suspension components.

The current generation of Teryx shocks only have compression damping and no rebound damping. Having damping on only one direction of travel and not the other is just dumb. I suppose it's a selling point for the vehicle??? Giving folks the ability to change damping on only one direction of travel mismatches the damping on the other side of the travel stroke. For best performance, shocks should be fully adjustable or, fixed without adjustment.
Current gen has gone backward from my 2012 then. In the owners/service manual they show the rebound and compression adjustments on the shock. I haven't messed with this yet but the shocks have 2 adjustment screws, one on top and one on the bottom.

Also if your interested in trying out different progressive spring options you might try a slider. This way you can try lots of variations on springs for all sorts of terrain. Springs not only set ride height, they are important to ride softness and overall shock performance since the shock part is really only dampening.

https://www.kartek.com/parts-categor...-dividers.html
That is exactly what I am looking to try slider and all
Vegas250rr is offline  
post #19 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-04-2018, 05:39 AM
 
maddog223's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: upstate, new york
Posts: 81
I raced ATV GNCC and Harescrambles from 1996-2003. I used Works performance, PEP and Elka shocks. I was sponsored by PEP and Elka. Elka are awesome shocks I’d recommend if you upgrade, though expensive. I only mention the above as it took me a long time to understand suspension, preload, rebound, compression, dual-rate, triple-rate; a lot of fine tune things that really need to be documented adjustments to ensure the best ride.

There is a complete set of Elka on EBay for sale currently(not mine).

Here is some info to clear up the questions in this post:

https://utvactionmag.com/amp/setup-a...tv-suspension/

You can also buy just a set of rears to offset the cost of a complete set.

Hope this helps...
maddog223 is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Kawasaki Teryx Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome