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Discussion Starter #1
I put our Teryx on the dyno with the load control on today, I took vacuum measurements in the air box and the plenum and as I expected there was a minor difference in atmospheric pressre and the pressure inside the airbox, it was -.29 inhg at the air box and slightly less than that in the plenum.





I measured air velocity at the mouth of the plenum and it ran as high as 2500 at 8000, 3500 at 8500 and 5080 FPM at 9000rpm,which equates to 90, 131 and 180 CFM thru the system. These numbers are off the top of my head as I type this but they are fairly accurate.



I had a air/fuel ratio gauge on each exhaust pipe and the front is a little leaner than the rear.



Point is why would you buy some air intake that advertises 180 CFM and says stock is 88 CFM when I proved today the stock air intake will actually flow that and you ain't going to be running your engine at 9000 rpm on the road anyway.



I am just getting started, I am just getting a baseline to work off of.



There is more to come, lots more!!



Shootin Straight,

Todd
 

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This is some great info!! Saved me some money..
 

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So are you saying that the technical specs these manufactures are placing on their products are in fact false?

Lets use this example.

aFe claims that on their new Teryx intake you achieve 180 CFM, 3 horsepower gain, and 4 lbs of torque. I am assuming they verified all of this on a dyno just as you have done.

If the stock intake can flow the same as an aftermarket, it would seem to me that then no additional fuel would be required and no jetting necessary.

I am not trying to argue, just trying to understand.
 

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Anything can flow 180 CFM but at what velocity, at 9000 rpm, you would be creating enough vacuum to draw the 180 CFM at quite a high velocity. The AFE may flow more air at a lower vacuum or lower RPM.

Just a thought, not all things are created equal.

I'll give you another example, I have an impact gun from SNAP on that delivers 1200 LB FTs of Torque, and a buddy has an impact gun that delivers 1400 LB Ft of Torque, my snap on will peel of nuts quite a bit quicker and easier.

See cause it delivers that power with 100 PSI of input where as his gun requires 140 PSI of input air.
 

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See now we are talking effeciency and I completely agree, if it can breath better with less effort, that is a plus meanwhile it is going to create more power, yes, no?
 

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Zen and the art of Teryx matainance...

:doh:Dang, feel like I need a degree from Wyotech to keep up here. LOL
Just kidding, I am sure Hunterworks and others will get us on the right track soon. To Mod the Air Box or NOT! That is the question...
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I am learning as I go. Funny thing is the digital manometer{ vacuum gauge) said the vacuum in the air intake I got was very minimal at the 9000 rpm.
The vacuum was higher between 6000 and 8000 rpm than 9000. I had to call the tech support line at Dwyer Instrument because I thought I was off a good bit on my CFM readings and they explained it to me.

See the funny thing is the engine can only digest 117 CFM at 100% efficiency at 9000 RPM things change quickly above 8000 rpm. Really the numbers above 8000 rpm are not that important as most of us won't be running there anyway.

The air velocity at stock rev limiter was about 2400 FPM and that equates to about 90CFM, at 9000 rpm the velocity was roughly 5000 fpm but the vacuum didn't increase.

Someone ask do manufacturers lie, heck yes they do, very few tell the truth, they manipulate the numbers to sell you product. We won't do that at HW. If you could just hear what I hear from companies. One told me, "Todd you can't be telling people this stuff, this is how we make our living" I said "No, that is how you make your living, not me"

Example: Who would believe that a Rhino 660 had 19hp stock and could add another 19hp with a air intake, carb and exhaust? I hope no one said "me", it ain't happening but one manufacturer did and Dirt Wheels put it in their magazine. I couldn't stand it so I called them and ask how they came to those numbers and they immediately told me K&N did the dyno work and they changed over to dyno tires after they got the stock reading. Well duh, the tires were the trick. Besides anyone who owns a dyno can make the numbers rise or lower within reason by the way they set the smoothing.

One company says a CDI will give a Rhino 3hp, no it won't, period. Single cylinder CVTed UTV's don't care much about timing but a Teryx sure does.


AFE didn't measure torque, look at the chart the lines don't cross at 5252 rpm. They like everyone else dynoed without locking the CVT out and therefore you get mechanical advantage of the CVT instead of a true representation of the actual power curve. Dyno runs are not supposed to be taken while shifting gears they are to be taking in one gear and that is what locking the CVT does for you.

I promise I don't like having all this expensive equipment and not finding much to help but I do like keeping you from wasting money.

Don't get discouraged there are mods to be made but we are going to have to do it one step at a time and today was step one for Teryx and me.

On a Teryx, bigger pistons, higher compression, cams, exhaust and carb work still makes more power. What I am trying to do is limit what HW does to some kind of intake mod when we figure it out, CDI, exhaust and some cams. I feel comfortable putting these items in a box and shipping them to you to install and you will get a decent power increase, not the most but a good bit, it will be reliable and you can do the work yourself.

Todd
 

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All good comments
 

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Questions
It seems that the bench mark is based on tests on a new, perfectly clean filter. In the real world, I go out for a weekend and ride the dusty trails and mud pits. The filter clogs up and its not as efficient. Would an "over kill" air filter offset this, as when the filter is partially plugged up, the carbs would still get all the air they need?

So for example if 117cfm is ideal, do you need a 140 cfm filter to offset the filter getting 20% plugged up? Or 110CFM to offset 90CFM required.

How much air does the stock filter allow to flow?

Thank you in advance for your input.
 

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Check this post from a guy on this site (lowes48)




***I just picked mine up from hmf got full exhaust dyno at almost 37 rwhp got the dyno sheets to with cdi box will be over 40 hp stock motor. Test air box lid on and off or little hole no matter what we tried we lost hp with air box mod of any kind! FULL exhaust equal length into a big single but for some unknow resone mine made 29.7 hp stock the most anybody has seen on a stock unit.***


This was with the stock CDI, notice that he said ANY holes or ANYTHING done to the airbox HP was lost, looks like the airbox needs to be left alone.......37 rwhp is pretty good for a pipe and jetting only, up from 29.7 stock
 

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Discussion Starter #11
One thing they didn't do was change the springs in the diaphragm to a lighter spring which I did today and was able to put two TPI valves in the air box lid and open them wide open. I will give a full report later today.
 

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I am learning as I go. Funny thing is the digital manometer{ vacuum gauge) said the vacuum in the air intake I got was very minimal at the 9000 rpm.
The vacuum was higher between 6000 and 8000 rpm than 9000. I had to call the tech support line at Dwyer Instrument because I thought I was off a good bit on my CFM readings and they explained it to me.

See the funny thing is the engine can only digest 117 CFM at 100% efficiency at 9000 RPM things change quickly above 8000 rpm. Really the numbers above 8000 rpm are not that important as most of us won't be running there anyway.

The air velocity at stock rev limiter was about 2400 FPM and that equates to about 90CFM, at 9000 rpm the velocity was roughly 5000 fpm but the vacuum didn't increase.

Someone ask do manufacturers lie, heck yes they do, very few tell the truth, they manipulate the numbers to sell you product. We won't do that at HW. If you could just hear what I hear from companies. One told me, "Todd you can't be telling people this stuff, this is how we make our living" I said "No, that is how you make your living, not me"

Example: Who would believe that a Rhino 660 had 19hp stock and could add another 19hp with a air intake, carb and exhaust? I hope no one said "me", it ain't happening but one manufacturer did and Dirt Wheels put it in their magazine. I couldn't stand it so I called them and ask how they came to those numbers and they immediately told me K&N did the dyno work and they changed over to dyno tires after they got the stock reading. Well duh, the tires were the trick. Besides anyone who owns a dyno can make the numbers rise or lower within reason by the way they set the smoothing.

One company says a CDI will give a Rhino 3hp, no it won't, period. Single cylinder CVTed UTV's don't care much about timing but a Teryx sure does.


AFE didn't measure torque, look at the chart the lines don't cross at 5252 rpm. They like everyone else dynoed without locking the CVT out and therefore you get mechanical advantage of the CVT instead of a true representation of the actual power curve. Dyno runs are not supposed to be taken while shifting gears they are to be taking in one gear and that is what locking the CVT does for you.

I promise I don't like having all this expensive equipment and not finding much to help but I do like keeping you from wasting money.

Don't get discouraged there are mods to be made but we are going to have to do it one step at a time and today was step one for Teryx and me.

On a Teryx, bigger pistons, higher compression, cams, exhaust and carb work still makes more power. What I am trying to do is limit what HW does to some kind of intake mod when we figure it out, CDI, exhaust and some cams. I feel comfortable putting these items in a box and shipping them to you to install and you will get a decent power increase, not the most but a good bit, it will be reliable and you can do the work yourself.

Todd

You should never take to heart what some of those magasines say,ahem,possibly that that one.

I've sent product to magasines lots over the years for evaluation on their test bikes,etc. One time ,"one of the magazines",...cough, they flat out said to me..."listen,..if you can contract a certain size Ad for the next 12 months...we will make it sounds REAL good" ..

Me being a simple hillbilly from eastern Canada said " I didn't really relize that is this way that this stuff worked".....they said..."well NOW you KNOW" It was only about 3-4 years ago and remember it plain as day.

Certain magazines are part of the "old boys club" of socal...certain media and a select group of companies eat lunch together a lot. You know how it is.

I've never taken ads with them again,as I declined their offer.
I advertize in every snowmobile and many ATV publications...some of them are very political companies within the industry(ones that I avoid)...and some are not and actually will do independant reviews and fair rates for ads,even if you are not "part of the circle".
 
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